EP154 Fear: The Real Cause of Suffering, A Conversation With Ben Schwarcz, MA, MFT, ACAP-EFT

This post was authored by Rosanne on Rosanne Austin.

We all know at some level that living in fear isn’t awesome, but have you ever wondered what sustained fear can do to mind, body and soul? In this frank conversation about fear, Ben Schwarcz and I are going to expose how living in fear can not only negatively impact your life, but can warp […]

The post EP154 Fear: The Real Cause of Suffering, A Conversation With Ben Schwarcz, MA, MFT, ACAP-EFT appeared first on Rosanne Austin.

Hey gorgeous, if you want success on your fertility journey, you’ve got to have the mindset for it. It’s time to kick fear, negativity, doubt, shame, jealousy, and the whole clown car of low vibe fertility journey BS to the curb. I’m your host, Roseanne Austin, fertility mindset master, former prosecutor and recovering type A control freak perfectionist.

I use the power of mindset to get pregnant naturally and have my baby boy at 43. Despite years of fertility treatment failure, I help women across the globe beat the odds on their fertility journey. Just like I did get ready for a quick hit of confidence, joy, feminine, badassery, and loads of hell. Yes.

For your fertility journey. It’s time to get fearless, baby, fearlessly fertile. Let’s do this. Welcome to the Fearlessly Fertile podcast, episode 154. Fear, the real cause of suffering. A conversation with Ben Schwartz. Hey, my loves. I am absolutely delighted to bring you a really powerful interview with somebody that I love very dearly, Ben Schwartz.

This is the second time that Ben has appeared on this podcast and there’s a reason for that. Whenever I need to get centered, whenever I want to talk something over philosophically, spiritually, Ben is the person that I think of immediately. And in a time in our lives, and frankly in human history, where we are being inundated with just fear on ultimately what feels like every front, I thought it would be important to share a perspective and a way of looking at fear Bye.

In a very different way, and really exposing it for what it is. It is the cause and source of so much suffering, and when you understand the mechanisms of not only how fear shows up in our lives, but also how it is used by a lot of different sources to keep us trapped and feeling helpless, I think you’re gonna walk away with a new way of seeing fear and being able to call it out in a way that you might not have been able to do in the past.

The point of all this is to empower you to see beyond the paper tigers that fear often creates and tries to scare the shit out of us with. When you learn to turn down the noise of manipulation, when you find yourself in a place where you stop falling prey to those that lead with fear, And want to dominate with fear, you become the master of your experience because when you master your fear, you are ultimately becoming the master of your life.

You become the ultimate point of discernment. And you can see whole truth, not just the scary shit that fear tries to toss your way. And just to remind you, Ben Schwartz has worked as a mental health professional for over 25 years and is licensed in the state of California as a counselor, psychotherapist, wilderness vision quest guide, and life coach.

And he also is an incredible trainer and practitioner of EFT. So, I think that this conversation is going to be incredibly enlightening, and I couldn’t think of a better person to have a conversation about fear with. So, my loves, lean back, enjoy, and just bask in this conversation with Ben Schwartz. Oh my god, I’m so excited to be here with you right now!

Good to see you, Roseanne. Oh my gosh, you seriously, I know you probably know this, you know, we don’t talk every day, but you are seriously one of my favorite people on the planet. I mean, no exaggeration. So I am so delighted that we’re having this conversation and we’ll jump right in if that’s cool with you.

That’s fine. Is this blurry background weird to have, or is it fine? No, it’s awesome. It’s like, it makes you the man of mystery. Yes. Mysterious. Ben, we’ll, we’ll just, like I was saying, we’ll just jump right in bed because. Because you are one of the most calm, level headed people that I know, I, you know, when I was thinking about having a really deep conversation about fear and the role that sustained fear or the effects that sustained fear can have on our lives, like you’re the first person I thought of.

And so I really want to dig into this with you. So let’s start by just. There are some utility to fear, but there is a point when that starts to interfere with the way we live our lives. And you’re a therapist. You see this every freaking day. Let’s talk. Let’s start there. If that sounds good to you. Sure, sure.

Yeah, I mean, exactly. There’s a utility to fear. We wouldn’t be able to maintain our human safety and existence without some just basic instinctive fear. You know, all, all animals have, have healthy fear. You know, it’s a, it’s a survival mechanism, right? But it’s also the biggest cause of suffering. Yeah. I mean, so let’s talk about that because this suffering, I mean, we see some of it now.

Like we, we’ve been in unprecedented times going on, what, two years now. Yeah. And I don’t remember a time in my life where I was ever like, I’m not personally afraid, but that I have felt like this overwhelming sense of dread kind of around me. Oh yeah. We could talk for so long on this subject. Couldn’t wait.

You know, when this whole thing started, I was optimistic. I was idealistic. I thought, you know, in my idealistic mind that this was the mass enlightenment I’ve always wished for. You know, it was gonna, you know, everyone’s TVs would turn off and everybody would walk out of their houses and blink their eyes and look around and go, Oh, we’re part of a human family.

Like, and they’d come out of their, their stupor and their depression and their, their hypnosis and, and, and we would have a common, a common goal and a common, you know, and it was quite the opposite, actually. At first, I think a lot of people felt some of this sort of unity. And then it quickly devolved into this massive fracture in humanity, as from my perspective, and polarization, all driven by fear.

And this is a different kind of fear. This seems to have a different texture to it. Like, because it’s one thing to like, oh, if you’re an arachnophobe like me, you see a spider and you know, But that seems to be like, just sort of fleeting. It seems to be more incidental. But let’s talk about sustained fear.

What is that? Because that’s not just our, you know, what is it? Our amygdala telling us that there’s something attacking. It’s something different. It seems. Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Um, I mean, I think, first of all, people experience fear for different reasons and experience it in different ways.

You know, there’s different shades of fear, you know, I know people that are in a constant state of fear, not just because of what’s going on in the world, but just by nature have a chronic anxiety or chronic fearfulness. This can be very debilitating and completely not connected to any rational thing or, or actual threat.

Right. Some people just lock their nervous system is turned on and they can’t turn it off and they’re, they’re the ones that I think struggle. Sometimes the worst, because, you know, it feels like it, there’s nothing you can do about it. Then there’s all these other kinds of fear, you know, on both on the full spectrum of whatever belief system or perspective you have about what’s going on in the world.

And it can be, it can seem extremely rational. Well, I’m afraid to go to the store because COVID, you know, so I’m going to just hunker down for indefinitely three months, six months, a year. I know people that didn’t leave their house for a year in my community. Wow. I mean, yeah, maybe they went out to get the, take out the trash or, you know, whatever, you know, the, the basic, you know, the absolute necessities.

But for some people, those necessities did not include going to the grocery store. They got all their stuff delivered and, and they wouldn’t walk onto their sidewalk without a mask on, you know, and, um, and there’s still people around that kind of do that. And I, I’ve never understood it from a, at least from my own rational point of view that that’s extreme.

You know, I have compassion for people that are in fear, but fear drives people to be very irrational and, um, and to have. Not better judgment, but worse judgment. Wow. Fear really distorts things greatly. Yeah, and you were getting to something that I thought was really cool. It’s this idea that we think we’re making rational choices.

Our fear will, will get us, will fool us into thinking that the choices that we’re making are rational when they’re anything but that. That’s absolutely right. And what they’re doing, you know, when people act out of fear and then find something that to them feels like the right action, I’m going to put on a mask.

I’m going to put on two masks. I’m going to wear three masks. I’m going to wear a mask and a face shield. I’m gonna go to no stores whatsoever. I’m gonna stay six feet away from my friend. Everybody’s got these arbitrary rules and some of them look at the mandates that they authority and say, Oh, well, they’re right.

Cause they, they know, they, they know more. They’re the experts. So, but these things are arbitrary too. If you look across the country, there’s. As many different mandates as there are locations and governments and, and, you know, city councils or whatever, you know, it’s arbitrary. So there is no final authority, but people find security in doing whatever behavior makes them feel safe.

And it’s just comes down to self management. It’s, it’s a coping mechanism to make people feel safe. People do it in all their different ways. So, that’s the, that’s the craziness of it all, really. When you look at how people behave. Well, I think that this, this kind of sustained fear, this doesn’t just apply to what’s going on in the world.

I mean, I see this happen, at least, you know, with the women that I serve as well. Is that we get into this, such an intense sustained fear. That we’re not going to get what we want or that there’s something wrong with us that we have no idea what it is, but there’s bound to be something that we start to get engaged in this cascade of fear based choices.

That actually take us farther and farther from where we want to be. Yeah. Yeah. And it takes a huge toll on your system. The longer that you are in a state of fear, it, it literally, it affects you on every level, including physically, you know, chronic stress is, is the biggest cause of illness. So it’s nothing to treat lightly.

It’s, it’s a real issue. Isn’t it funny though, because like we get so used to chronic stress that we just think that’s the way it is. That’s right. Yeah, people get very used to whatever state they’re in and, um, and then you accept it as normal and, and you might not even, people sometimes don’t even know that their body is stressed, that their body is tense, that their shoulders are locked up until it gets so severe that suddenly there’s a terrible pain or something.

Because you can, you can, you can maintain these states for a long time and not really be conscious of just how much you carry. I see that a lot. And I think that’s an interesting point to bring up is that our physical bodies, like, store this. Because we think, Oh, I, Hey, I ran a marathon, you know, two weeks ago and I, you know, I eat all organic.

I must not be stressed. You know, this stress, we have this idea that you have to be doubled over wrapped in a cocoon of your fear in order to be in a state of constant, you know, sustained stress, but that’s not the case. We’re really good at hiding it. Yeah. Yeah. Humans are so, so fascinating and multifaceted.

We find all kinds of ways to trick ourselves and deceive ourselves and. Yeah. Some people have so much stress that they’re not functioning. And then it’s obvious, like, they’ve broken down, they can’t do things. But then you have highly functional people that are highly stressed who, who do highly, you know, intensive work in the world and make good money and manage a family and do all a million different things.

It doesn’t mean they’re not an extreme stress, you know, that their body is just. wound. And it doesn’t mean that it’s not going to catch up with you. Exactly. Everybody’s got a limit. Always. Yeah. I remember, I guess I remember some teacher that I was listening to. Then I always, I remember them saying, our bodies speak the truth that our mouths won’t, or some, it was something like that.

Like our bodies always tell truth. Yeah. I think that’s, that’s very wise. And, um, that’s, Definitely what I, how I look at it is that the body is. But even your emotions, you know, emotions and body are kind of almost synonymous. The body expresses your emotions, even if you’re not aware of how that’s happening.

And both of those things can be happening on a subconscious level. But yeah, the body doesn’t lie. It tells you when you’re feeling something. It tells you when you’re over your limit. You know, and unfortunately, usually we, we end up either getting sick or, or having a serious pain issue when we’ve neglected to pay attention to the buildup of fear or stress.

And then the body is like the final alarm bell, you know, that’s get your attention. And it’s going to be getting it in a much more drastic way if you’re not paying attention earlier. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for sure. Cause when I think about like, when I was struggling for all those years on my fertility journey, when I look back on it now, I just kind of laugh.

I mean, I’m like, of course I wasn’t getting pregnant. There was no room in my life for a baby. My life was completely out of, I mean, I don’t know if there’s any real. Thing called balance. I think for everyone, it’s a little different, but I was in a constant state of stress. I was not taking care of myself.

It was anything that had to do with relaxation. I thought it was for chumps. It was for the week, you know, I mean, just all kinds of stuff. I mean, I was like hardcore in my type a masculine, which comes naturally to me. Uh, but you know, I see this even in the women I serve, uh, yeah. You know, your body at some point’s gonna say Uhuh.

Yeah, yeah. Uhuh. I, I, you know, I can barely keep you alive, much less, you know, growing a baby like I’m maxed out. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I see the same, it’s in that realm. It’s often the super achievers that, that fall into this category. Yeah. So, so let’s talk about, I. What are some of the, the things, like what are some, some telltale signs that your ass may be in some sustained fear, like what are some things to kind of be on the lookout for?

Oh yeah, good question. Um, one is, um, sleep problems. You know, you know, I don’t want people to think that just because you have a sleep issue that automatically means there’s something, you know, horribly wrong or emotionally wrong because people can have sleep issues, obviously for many problems, hormonal and all kinds of things.

Right. But I think the main reason that most common reason for sleep problems is stress, which comes down to fear. Stress is really about fear. Right. And so if you’re having trouble falling asleep or you’re waking up every hour or two hours or, you know, or you’re having nightmares. Nightmares, that’s a big flag that you’ve got something emotionally going on that isn’t being addressed.

So that’s, that’s one thing. What else? Just physical tension or pain. Stiff neck, shoulders, especially. What else? If you find yourself being really reactive to things, you know, easily triggered, whether that trigger, you know, it depends on a person’s personality sometimes, whether the trigger is anger triggers.

Or fear triggers. Those are the most typical. It depends, you know, it comes down to personality. Sometimes anger, the person’s, you know, go to kind of automatic default reaction to fear is anger. Cause anger is defensive and it’s makes you feel stronger and more safe to go into anger. Sometimes some people just go directly to fear.

So when something happens and suddenly you get that jolt of adrenaline in your body, that, that kind of shaky feeling. Um, and your mind starts to raise your heart, starts to race really quickly. Suddenly when, you know, maybe even minor things happen, get a letter in the mail. Oh my God. Yeah. Or whatever.

That’s the, that’s a big clue that you’re, you’re building up a lot of stress. And again, it’s something is, is not getting addressed. Because the thing that we’re reacting to is usually not actually the cause, it’s only the trigger. Ooh, say more about that. Yeah, that’s kind of, I kind of live by that, that credo.

It’s, it’s, it, the thing that is this thing in front of you that’s upsetting you or, or triggering an emotion. Is not the cause of the emotion. It’s only the trigger of it. So that means that you, you laid the groundwork for this long ago, probably maybe all the way back in your childhood, most like, so, you know, that’s where your foundation is.

That’s where your patterns are formed. That’s where your traumas are rooted, your deepest traumas, usually. And the ones that you haven’t fully dealt with. So you can go years and be functioning just fine, but then something builds up, like you say, stress builds up. Until you can’t tolerate it anymore. And suddenly little things are triggering you to just completely lose it.

And feel out of control. It’s not because of those little things or even something that seems like a big thing. That’s usually not the root cause. It’s just, it’s true. It’s waking up the old stuff that was never dealt with. It always comes back. Always comes full circle. Yes. Yes. And you know, it’s, it’s also interesting, you know, from, you know, from my work, I, I look at fear all the time.

I mean, it’s something that I’m, I’m constantly looking at and there’s a critical element. I think that makes that distinguishes fleeting fear from sustained fear. And for me, at least, and I’m curious to see what you think about this is a person’s sense of powerlessness within that. I think that when somebody feels it.

Empowered their response to fear is very different than perhaps someone who is disconnected from their sense of power, right? Well, now you’re getting to a deeper level here in which, you know, we’re going to, yeah, you and I don’t play games. Ben, we’re like, we don’t do surface shit here, but yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the coolest thing about the whole subject really is that.

There are these different layers that we can speak to, to this from, right? So we, we’re talking about the most surface level of just everyday fear and trauma and all that stuff. But what you’re talking about has more to do with the nature of, of consciousness, of reality, of the reality you create, right?

And there is a very big difference between feeling or believing that you are a vulnerable little, little, little creature in a completely chaotic and dangerous world that you are separate from and have no influence over. And it’s going to eat you. Versus somebody who has a deep belief rooted in a sense of oneness.

That the, the, that the world is an extension of your consciousness, that you’re not in any way, shape, or form separate from anything around you, and that your only locus of control is, is internal, and that’s all you really need to be. Mastering is, is you, you know, they’re, they’re very different viewpoints and one, and one engenders incredible amount of fear and the other doesn’t, it doesn’t mean you don’t deal with fear with the other.

It’s just, there’s way more room to, to, um, get a handle on that. That is so huge. And I want to, I want to rewind to some words that you said, because. I think the words that are used pejoratively and I think intentionally to disempower us is when you say the reality that we create, because when you hear, you know, it’s usually used rather pejoratively where somebody saying you’re living in your own reality, right?

Like, as opposed as that, as if that’s something that’s a bad thing. But you and I both know, you know, through our own extensive study and our own personal experience that it’s actually true. We are creating our experience, you know, going back to an example that I gave earlier. I’m the arachnophobe. You’re probably all mellow, you know, and like, you know, but, but we can, but two reasonable people can have two very different experiences of the same thing.

One is like, Oh, I can handle this situation. And then the other is like, I’m powerless against this. Yeah. I mean, I, I don’t like using the word victim mentality, even though, cause it, cause that has a lot of, can feel like a lot of judgment, but really it’s, it’s human condition, you know, this subject that I’m feeling like.

A victim versus feeling empowered. You know, we’re all, we’re always, I think most people are playing on that edge. I mean, you can abuse power and, and, and not use it in the right service, or you can be completely demolished by feeling victimized. And, you know, real empowerment to somewhere, kind of like in the place in between.

And I don’t know. What would, what do you think about this? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I agree with you that we’re kind of, it’s a constant area of growth for all of us. Yeah. Because I think the natural inclination is to like stop and freak out for a second. Like, what do I make of this? Right? Like, this is something new.

And there’s tons of uncertainty. Not only is there uncertainty in the world right now, but I think there is just part of also the human condition that we have uncertainty in our daily lives. And I think where we can make the difference is making a choice about the meaning that we give to anything.

That’s right. And, and to be able to say, hey, okay, I don’t know what’s happening here. I know that I can think and I know I can make choices. So I don’t have to react. I can respond to something and let me just take this in for a second. I think that’s a very different response. than someone that immediately reacts and like, yeah, is in fear.

Definitely. Yeah. I think that’s, that’s a really good point is that, um, yet reactivity is, is never gonna, gonna serve you in the best way. And being in a place of, I don’t know. Is actually a much more honest and powerful place to be, even though, you know, we resist that because we think, oh, well, if I don’t know that means I’m vulnerable, um, uh, you know, something’s going to happen to me.

I need to know some, I need to know, I need the security of knowing. And the truth is, we don’t know shit. We don’t. We don’t know anything. We, you know, even I don’t care how much of an expert a person is, you might be an expert in your, in your particular science or your realm or whatever. But even that, you know, in the grand scheme of things, what do we really know?

I mean, We’re just this little speck of dust, not even a speck of dust floating in an endless universe. You know, we don’t know. I mean, I think that that’s actually a really, it’s strangely comforting. I find it to be. Yeah, because then you don’t have to have all the answers. Exactly. I was listening to a talk, gosh, maybe about a month and a half ago where this, there was a scientist on there and he was saying, our best guess is we only perceive 0.

005 percent of what is actually out there. Yeah. And, and that was like the enormity of that. And it’s like, we get so siloed in what we think is true. And we close our minds off and we, we allow ourselves to get manipulated and afraid. When if we just stop and get curious and take a second and remember that whatever was behind the big bang or whatever people believe that matter is in us.

Yeah. Yeah. So we are equipped. And I think that sometimes I don’t know why this happens. I mean, I have some of my suspicions about why this happens. But I think we get dumbed down and I think we are discouraged from something that I want to talk to you about, talk with you about next and that’s personal sovereignty, because I think that’s the trick.

I mean, I really think that that’s the key to getting out of sustained fear is to find a way and there are many different ways to get there, you know, and I don’t even know if there’s a there there. I don’t, I don’t see it as a destination per se. I see, I see, but see it as a journey, but finding a way to a sense of sovereignty.

Right. Well, yeah, I mean, to me, when I hear the word sovereignty, it, to me, it means the opposite of, of being in a sort of victim mindset that you, you determine your truth for yourself. Not because somebody tells you what to think or what to believe or what to do. It comes through your own filter, your own authority, right?

And which leads to, you know, talking about things like intuition too, or instinct, you know? Um, and getting rid of this idea of right or wrong. You know, what’s right for one person might be wrong for another person. And which is part of the whole mess we’re in right now with politics and divisions. And, you know, I have very strong feelings about my point of view about everything that’s going on and, and I, and I, you know, and I’ll talk about those things sometimes with people.

And at the same time, if somebody tells me, yeah, I decided to do this in this situation because I sat with it and my intuition said, you know, for me, this was the thing to do. Like I have absolute respect for that and it’s usually the people that say that are usually the people that also say and I respect everyone else’s choices to whatever that feels right to them.

They should do too. Thank you. Like if everybody thought that way, we would all be much more of a unified humanity, our country. But what we hear, you know, is. Such a, such a vice grip on my point of view is right. And yours is wrong. And that now it’s again, you’ve put the power outside of you. Like there’s an external right or wrong rather than the sovereignty of what is true for me, what is right for me.

And that’s to me, the most important thing. And fear, fear demolishes intuition. Oh, let’s talk about that. Ben, please for the love of all things. Holy. We have to do that because so many, you know, so many of my ladies are like, and I love them. They’re so smart, big hearted kind, but there’s something that happens along the way.

I don’t know exactly what it is. Again, I have some suspicions, but, but there’s something that disconnects us from that divine aspect of who we are. That intuition that, that, that, like, you know, that signal to, you know, to that knowing that we just lose our connection to it. And you said fear. So let’s talk about that.

Like, how does fear interfere with it? Yeah. Well, so I think this goes back to sort of the very kind of instinctive biological animal part of, of us as humans is that, uh, fear. Fear is, is in us because it’s, it’s a survival mechanism. It’s not there to make us happy or to make, you know, deep decisions. It’s there so that in the moment of a threat, we can respond without thinking and save our, um, life or our kid, child’s life or whatever.

So that is a completely separate faculty from the faculty of, of intuition. which is, um, to me, a more spiritual quality. And, um, if you master fear, your intuition can serve in the same purpose as fear does without creating the debilitating feelings of fear. You might still have a sense of fearfulness, but it won’t overtake you.

It won’t take over your nervous system. And that’s the thing is that in a fight or flight state, everything else goes, you know, into the background. It, it, it hijacks your whole system. I mean, animals, you know, if you look at like a deer being threatened. It has both. It has, it has primal fear and intuition, but the benefit that animals have is that when they go into a trauma experience, you know, get attacked or dragged down by a wolf or something, and you know, they’re nearing the end of their life, Uh, if they managed to get away, then they just shake that off and they go right back to their calm, intuitive state.

And they’re just calmly eating drac and get grass again in the field. And, and everything is online. They’re not carrying any stress whatsoever. They’re not, they’re not at a bar with a bottle of tequila and then telling stories 15 years later about it, right? Like, they don’t build an identity around their fear.

Right? A deer does not build an identity around their fear, but we do. Yeah, we build an identity around it and we also do a terrible job at, at releasing trauma from our system. And that stuff is stored in our nervous system. You know, like, You know, we hear the phrase more now, the body keeps the score, which is title of a wonderful book on trauma.

It’s absolutely true. Every thing that happens dramatically to us. Is recorded in the body, not necessarily in your, in your conscious mind, but in your body, in your nervous system, and that’s energy that can be, it can be released through different methods, but we usually don’t do that. And what, what interferes the most with it is our, our human mind.

You know what we sometimes call secondary consciousness, the primary consciousness is the norm that it’s what animals do naturally. There’s no interference by a thinking mind. Now if an animal gets attacked and it gets away, it’s going to shake violently. And it’s going to look weird, but it’s not going to go, Oh, you know, everyone’s going to make fun of me.

If I start shaking right now, I’ve got to hold it together. There’s no deer shame. The deer’s not in shame. Yeah, but we lock it down and we prevent that discharge. We prevent that, that kind of getting back into balance. That would happen naturally. Our bodies are designed to do that. And so, you know, when we’re going through a reaction to something.

And we start, you know, maybe you might relate to this, you start to tremble or you’re, you get a quiver in your gut or you’re, you know, a shiver feeling or, or something that is your body trying to do what it’s designed to do to release something, but we’re afraid, Oh my God, I’m having a panic attack. I need a Xanax or I need, I need to, I need a drink or I need to distract myself.

I’ve got to, you know, Get a handle on it. And so we don’t recognize that the body is actually designed to shake it out and instead we pathologize that and then we get on, you know, see a psychiatrist and they tell us, Oh, you’ve got an anxiety disorder, you know, I think, I mean, it’s fascinating to me how, and I think your point is well taken.

You know, that fear can be something that is fleeting, that comes and goes, it has the utility, but in, in a lot of us, we just make it a way of life. Like if we’re not careful and we don’t take a step back and think to ourselves and think for ourselves, you know, to, to be able to take a step back and say, Hey, is this something I really need to be afraid of?

Like that is a level of consciousness, like to be able to step out of your, your own story and be able to say, wait a second. Is there any merit to this? Like even that little question of, is this true? Or is this even something I care to, to give attention to? Right. Like that could make all the difference in the world, but we’re not taught to do that.

That’s right. And again, I think a lot of times just because of giving authority to something outside of us, it could be watching the news. It could be what your doctor tells you, you know, and this has no disrespect to doctors. You know, we go to doctors for a reason and we want their expertise. But anyone in a position of authority that tells you something about yourself or what to be afraid of has incredible amount of power over your well being because fear is Toxic that kind of fear is toxic and even like something like a diagnosis.

Oh you have this condition and you have a 70 percent chance of Dying from, you know, whatever that is putting a toxic fear into your system, into your mind, and it has a very real effect, you know, it’s, it’s programming. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I’ve seen women who hear just once in passing 10 years prior that they better hurry up and try to have a baby because it’s harder in your 40s.

Right. Yeah. Like, and who said, and, and, you know, they don’t, I’m not sure if there are any studies out there that about women who conceive naturally in their forties, but maybe there isn’t because there’s no money to make off of it, you know? And I, and I believe there’s other cultures where, where the median age is very different.

You know, where people are, I’ve heard, I’ve heard of some indigenous cultures where they’re having babies into their sixties. See that I w I would not even, that would not even surprise me because there was a conversation I had with Dr. Christian Northrup, gosh, way back when I did a podcast with her. And she’s like, nobody was telling these women in the Irish Catholic hospital.

I was doing my residency. Nobody was telling women at 45, 46, 47 and older that they were too old. They just came in and have babies. They didn’t have that mind virus. Yeah, yeah. Mind virus. But that’s, I mean, but that’s, I think the power and I love this conversation that we’re having because what goes on in our mind can be a virus.

If we don’t take responsibility and, you know, and exercise some personal sovereignty over what we think and believe, then we’ll fall for anything. That’s right. You know, and sometimes it might feel like you’re putting your head in the sand or being in denial when you don’t listen to the scary stuff, but that doesn’t mean it is if you’re conscious denial is an unconscious process, denial would be, you tell me the sky is blue.

And I’m like. No, it’s not. It’s green, you know, like, or whatever, you know, like my perception does not agree with yours. And I’m, even if it’s something very logically and I’m, I’m wrong, you know, it’s denial says no, but we don’t, it’s not a conscious thing we do. It’s a, it’s a, it’s an unconscious defense mechanism.

But if you consciously say I am not watching TV anymore. Because that stuff is just toxic. It’s just, it’s just fear porn. I’m not going to turn it on. I’m going to take a month away from it. And I’m not going to read the news either for a month. I’m just going to take a hike every morning and I’m going to meditate.

Like that is not denial. That is self preservation. You know, that, that, that will restore your, it’ll restore your sense of, like you say, sovereignty of connection to what’s real, what’s real in your reality, not out there, not in some other country, not in the mainstream news or whatever it you’re listening.

It’s right here. What is my perception of myself, my body and my world that my senses can perceive around me. That’s really all you need to be well, if, if you did that, most of your problems would probably go away, dude, we went up to northern Idaho around Christmas time to get a Christmas tree and there was no cell reception.

There was like it, we were completely off the grid. And I remember thinking that same thing, like, this is peace. Yeah, like totally disconnecting from all of that noise, all of that stuff that’s meant to scare us that is everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. And it’s almost like, and I think that there’s a little bit, it takes a little bit of courage to do this because probably everyone around you is going to think you’re a kook if you refuse to be afraid.

Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s true. I think that’s true. Yeah, because if you’re like, I think to myself of. So many of the women that I work with, I’m like, you get to be the one woman in that waiting room. That’s smiling because you know, something that they don’t, you know, that you’re going to get yours.

You know, that, that this calling is on your heart and you’re going to believe that more than you’re going to believe the fear porn and like that. Yeah. They see changes in their lives that they, they didn’t even think were possible. Yeah. Yeah, that’s really the final frontier, isn’t it? Dealing with fear.

Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, there’s, there’s so much that you have to be willing to be that weirdo in a sense and, and just not take it on because they’re the masses are going to run with it. Is that a real thing? Is the masses running with fear the real thing? Yeah. Uh huh. Oh, yeah. Well, it’s compelling.

Yeah. You know, it’s entertaining and we might not think that it is, but it is. There’s a reason why we get addicted to listening to scary stuff. Reason why we see scary movies is the reason why we watch the news every day. And now we have to see what’s the next thing. We get kind of addicted to the rush of fear.

I think. Um, but like I said before, you know, it’s, it’s also a security thing. It’s kind of both. It’s like, oh, I need to know what the threat is so that I can take care of myself, but it’s such an illusion. You know, it’s fear is based on that whole thing we talked about of separation. And there’s no hope of overcoming fear.

As long as you feel like I am an isolated little, little pod in this scary sea of dangers. Now, so like going and going into the wilderness, like you’re talking about. It’s funny because you would think, you know, in a situation like that, it’s, it’s maybe you would think it would be scarier because the elements and there’s no cell reception and you’re isolated.

But if you just settle into it, there’s peace in it because it’s the natural world. It’s, it’s, we are natural living beings and the natural world is our natural home. And that’s where we realize that everything is actually okay. Right, right. And I think that there’s something to be said for breaking away from that, that mass of fear, you know, like everyone that, you know, sometimes I can’t even be around people that want to talk that way.

Like I just have, I do an about face and run the other direction because I’m like, I worked too hard to cultivate this, but I’m not taking that fear on. But it seems to me that. In doing that, you are raising yourself to a level of awareness where you can have something that is, I think, truly coveted, and that’s discernment.

Hmm. Yes. Discernment. Yeah. I’ve got a little sign at home on my altar that says it’s a little angel card that says discernment. It’s the one thing on there. Yeah, discernment, we don’t talk a lot about, but discernment has to do with, you can’t have discernment unless you’re grounded, unless you’re, unless you have some kind of calmness.

Otherwise it’s, it’s reactivity. It’s, it’s way more biased, you know, discernment comes best when it’s filtered through intuition. I mean, that’s the true discernment to know what’s, what’s best for you. You know, what do you need? What’s true for you? Clarity, right? Right. Right, right. And you know, and I think making great choices for ourselves, whether at least for my ladies were, whether it’s on this journey in other aspects of their lives where they put boundaries.

The jobs they take on the food they eat, like every decision, I think, ultimately, if we’re smart is going to be one that’s made with discernment and trusting ourselves because, you know, there, I think there, there’s just so there’s such a wealth of information right here. In our hearts and in that physical and spiritual knowing of what’s right for us that I really feel like the only time that we really fuck shit up is when we disconnect from that and we know when we’re doing it.

Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, I mean everything from the food you eat to the, to the doctors that you choose to see. I don’t want to harp on doctors because, you know, no, no, no, no. I mean, but, you know, I see this all the time, you know, that, um, It can be of just a world of difference when someone goes to a doctor that’s compassionate and listens and cares and it gives you the final authority and respect your choices and all of that is a collaborator versus the kind of arrogant, egotistical kind of doctor that just tells you what to do and tells you, you know, basically implies or even tells you that you’re stupid for choosing to do something or whatever.

Whatever, you know, shaming, um, so it’s so damaging and, you know, they’re completely different experiences, but I see people, well, they told me this is the best doctor I should stay with this person, you know, because they know best. I see a lot of damage done that way. And again, it’s giving away your power.

It’s not using discernment, you know, discernment would say, I really don’t feel comfortable with this person. I really, I don’t, I don’t like how I feel when I walk out of this office. And then with someone else, you know, I feel so much better now, you know, walking out of this appointment, like that’s good discernment to make the choice of what feels right to you.

But if we’re locked in fear, then we give away all our authority to other sources, you know, we’ve given it up. Yeah, and I think when we give it up, it certainly makes us more vulnerable to the abuses that come from sustained fear and, and before we know it, we’re, we’re hypnotized into thinking that things are what they aren’t.

Right. So let’s talk about that. Like talk, talk a little bit about the hypnosis that fear, I guess I would say it this way is how fear can be used to separate us from our power. Right? Well, this is a This is an interesting subject, and I, I don’t claim to be an expert in this, but I find it pretty fascinating, and you know, this idea of, you know, what we’re hearing more about is like, um, mass formation hypnosis, or mass formation psychosis, sometimes you hear, is basically when an entire culture, or entire large population of people is fed information that is inducing fear, and It puts people into a sort of hypnotic state where they’re very impressionable, where they, they will do things they normally wouldn’t do they’ll out of a very deep fear of, of death or something horrible happening if they don’t comply with what’s being said to them.

And I think that’s when people are very malleable. So, you know, that, that, I think that that’s the state of the world right now in many ways. And, um, you know, I come from a family of, of Holocaust history, you know, like I’m, my father was a Holocaust survivor, um, in his teen years. He, he was in the most horrendous death camps and, you know, that history is only one generation away from me.

And so I, I am very connected to that history and to the power of. An entire race of people or entire countries, you know, doing just absolutely atrocious things. And does that mean that everyone in that culture was a sociopath or, um, you know, was, was evil or something? Of course not. How could that possibly be?

I mean, yeah, some of the leaders were definitely sociopaths, but then everybody followed because they were in a sense hypnotized into Going along with this sort of thing is very dangerous when an entire population of people is told to believe a certain thing and that behind it all is fear. We hear it in the news constantly.

This is supposed to be the winter of death. Have you heard that? Oh, I heard that and I just kind of laughed. I just Yeah, so did I. Yeah, I mean, one thing that I would say about that is that I’ve become very suspicious. of anything that the first thing that it leads with is fear. Oh yeah. And I, you definitely should be suspicious when the first thing it leads with this fear.

No question. Because you hear it over and over again. And that’s where our discernment doesn’t come in. It’s like, okay, millions are going to die. Well, okay, that didn’t happen. Now this is going to happen. And then that didn’t happen, but we keep believing it anyway. This is going to be the winter of death.

And, you know, and, and illness, yeah, we’ve got these waves and we get through them and things are evolving and we’re surviving. And most of the, most of the worst things that have been said have not happened, but we’ve continued to hear that. And we will, that was, that’s not going to stop. Right. That’s not going to stop.

The only thing that can change is you turning it off or focusing on something else to get your power back. And, um, as long as there is the media or corporations, they only sell you things when you are in a state of lack. And lack is about fear. Oh, I need this. I need this because I’m not okay without it.

I need this because without it, I’m going to die. I need this because without it, I’ll be unhappy. Well, if you, if you’re sovereign, if you’re, if you are at peace with yourself and your existence, you don’t need very much and you don’t need to spend very much and you don’t need to feed into the system. And, um, you know, that in that IV of fear in your arm, you know, you can take it out and you don’t, it’s all, you know, here’s the weapon, right?

Yeah. And I think, you know, I, I really appreciate having this conversation with you, Ben, because I think. There’s so, there’s so much fear, whether it’s when women are trying to conceive or just live any other aspect of their lives that I think that anything that empowers us to take a step back and really think, you know, just think about what we’re thinking about in some ways, you know, like, is this true?

Is this something that I want to take on? Does this feel true to me? At a soul level that I think something really magical can happen and we can reconnect with that sense of knowing that is that has more efficacy than I think any scare tactic or any statistic or any bullshit that somebody wants to smear on you to disempower you because I always tell women and they don’t always believe me.

But at some point they’ll they figure it out. And I said, there is some woman on a planet of almost 8 billion people that went that has the same diagnosis. Same age, if not older, that figured it out. You will too, in your own way. Mm hmm. And I think when we get back to remembering that, whether it’s, you know, when they’re trying to conceive or in every other aspect of our lives, we are, we’re more than we think we are.

Infinitely more. infinitely. Well, thank you, Ben. Thank you for engaging in this. I think really brave and and very interesting conversation about fear. And I know that this is going to, you know, give some women an opportunity to really think about what they’re thinking about and and remember that they’re sovereign beings and that they get to choose.

So how can women get ahold of you, sir? They’d be very blessed if they did. Um, thanks. Uh, yeah, I, I guess my website would be the, the easiest to find out more about me and contact me. So the, the main website would be, uh, tapping coach.com, and there’s a hyphen between Tapping and Coach. So, okay. I’ll make sure that the team put that in the, in the show notes and, and so everyone can get ahold of you.

And it’s, it’s incredible the work that you do. You’re a return guest on this podcast and it just is such a delight you’ve served and helped so many people, uh, work through trauma and, and really, I think, get reconnected to that part of them that, that is sovereign and has discernment. So thank you for the work that you do in the world.

Thank you. I love talking to you, Roseanne, and it’s been way too long. So I’m so glad that we connected and got to have this conversation. It’s wonderful. Yes. Yes. I, I’m not sure if I could have that same conversation with anybody else. So that’s, I appreciate that, Ben. So thanks for coming on. Yeah, you bet.

Hey, loves. I hope that you absolutely enjoyed this thought provoking conversation that I had with Ben Schwartz. And I really hope that you can walk away with a new level of appreciation for the role that fear plays in your life, to really begin to understand how it shows up, how it’s used, and how ultimately we as sovereign beings are the final arbiter.

Of what we choose to believe and to remember that you are the master of your own experience. And if you are ready to finally get out of the suffering that fear is creating in your life and on this journey, so that you can show up with confidence, peace, and joy, and thereby do the very best for yourself, mind, and body.

My Fearlessly Fertile Method program is for women who intend to get pregnant in the next 12 months. And say hell yes to covering their bases, mind, and body. This conversation with Ben only underscores how important that is. And it most especially so you don’t have to look back on this time in your life with regret.

I work with women who are committed to success. To apply for your interview for this program, go to my website, www.FromMaybeToBaby.com and apply for an interview there. My methodologies help women around the world make their mom dreams come true. Fair results? Speak for themselves. If you don’t have a mindset for success on this journey, baby, you got a gaping hole in your strategy.

Let’s fix that shit and set you up for success. Till next time, change your mindset, change your results. Love this episode of the Fearlessly Fertile podcast? Subscribe now and leave an awesome review. Remember, the desire in your heart to be a mom is there because it was meant for you. When it comes to your dreams, keep saying, hell yes.

Rosanne offers a variety of programs to help you on your fertility journey — from Self-study, to Live, to Private Coaching.