EP183: The Mr. & Mrs. Austin Series: How We Dealt with the Stress

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If you’ve ever wondered if you were crazy for feeling stressed out, strung out, and scared sh*tless about where things are headed on your journey, tune in to this raw and real conversation my husband and I had about the stress we endured on our journey.  We share how we dealt with it. It’s the […]

The post EP183: The Mr. & Mrs. Austin Series: How We Dealt with the Stress appeared first on Rosanne Austin.

Transcript:
Hey Gorgeous, if you want success on your fertility journey, you’ve got to have the mindset for it. It’s time to kick fear, negativity, doubt, shame, jealousy, and the whole clown car of low vibe fertility journey BS to the curb. I’m your host, Roseanne Austin, fertility mindset master, former prosecutor and recovering type A control freak perfectionist.

I use the power of mindset to get pregnant naturally and have my baby boy at 43. Despite years of fertility treatment failure, I help women across the globe beat the odds on their fertility journey. Just like I did get ready for a quick hit of confidence, joy, feminine, badassery, and loads of hell. Yes.

For your fertility journey. It’s time to get fearless, baby, fearlessly fertile. Let’s do this. Welcome to the Fearlessly Fertile Podcast, episode 183, the Mr. and Mrs. Austin series, How We Dealt With the Stress. Hey loves, Mr. Austin and I are back this week for a second installment of our three part series together on relationships and this journey.

We’ve gotten so much loving feedback on this series, which is super awesome and it’s just super exciting to me that all of you are taking the time to look at your relationships as you live this journey. I’m not sure that I can emphasize the importance enough of relationship health as you’re trying to conceive.

The mind and body are a wondrous combination, and I’ve personally seen the impact that strengthening your relationship can have on your results on this journey, because think about it, there’s a lot of moving pieces in the fertility puzzle, and when you’re doing all the physical shit, that’s still not working, and you’re, you’re working on your mindset, but.

You know, you’ve gotta, if you’re a partner, you gotta look at your relationship. Now, I want to make it super clear, none of this is standing for the proposition that your relationship has to be picture perfect. Not at all. Our relationships are the very first place we dump our stress, and it’s the last place that we look for blocks to our baby.

And even if we notice that there could be some shit going on in our relationship, it’s kind of the last thing that we’re willing to look at, because. We run around under the impression that if we start looking at our relationship the whole house of cards is going to come crashing down. The reality is, is not looking at the relationship is going to be the catalyst for the house of cards coming down.

Okay, it’s not looking at it that’s the problem, it’s the not looking, it’s the pretending like the shit’s not happening. Neglecting the relationship, allowing your fear, doubt, negativity to cause you to nag, harangue, and, and not communicate properly. And, if you’re in a partnership, both y’all are doing it, okay?

Like, this is not just making this all about you. Certainly your relationship starts with you, as, as you’ve heard me say in the past, and I will stand by that, because We don’t go into relationships as mature women. Well, maybe some do. And, and we later figure this out. But we don’t go into a relationship hoping somebody is going to fix us.

Right? Like, that’s not a recipe for success. Because nobody wants to have to fix the other person. The expectation is, is we’re both coming to a relationship whole. We’re wanting to create this family together. And really create something that’s unique for ourselves and, and can create more love. Okay. So it’s, it’s really important.

And like I was starting to say, you know, I’ve seen massive examples of what making relationship health a priority in your life and in your relationship can have. I mean, Here’s just some of the examples I’ve seen in my coaching practice. I’ve seen women conceive naturally after failed IVF when they’ve tweaked their relationships, when they’ve learned to receive, when they’ve learned to communicate more effectively, when they and their partner get on the same page.

I’ve seen women conceive naturally over 40. Uh, you know, just in the past couple of weeks alone, check my Instagram. Two women. In two weeks, who are 45, conceived naturally. And I can tell you, both of these women had to take a look at their relationships. Not like their relationships were bad. Remember, your relationship does not need to be in the shitter for you to be looking at it.

But you have to look at the way that you move within that relationship. Are there blocks? to the way that you’re moving in that relationship. Does your partner know what you want? Can you tell your partner what’s really on your mind? Are you, y’all judging each other constantly and forcing each other into silence?

You know, what is it? Right? I’ve also seen women finally carry pregnancies to term. I’ve seen women who have repeated miscarriages finally unfuck some shit in their relationship and boom, baby’s fine. Okay. Baby goes to term. I’ve also seen women finally have treatment success. I’ve seen women in situations where their partner finally opened up to options that they had previously refused when things in the relationship got better.

Like it naturally, you know, corresponds that when things in your relationship get better, the two of you come out of your respective corners and start standing together again. You know, I see couples feel closer, feel normal again. And there’s an undeniable confidence that comes from knowing that you can trust in your relationship, your body, and yourself.

When your relationship is solid, when you are on solid ground, and even if you think things are great now, but that you, you make that investment in being better, it’s insane what happens. And every one of my Miracle Mamas learned how to be different in their relationships. And it’s an essential part of what I coach and what I teach.

And their babies, And they are living proof of this. So I hope that all of these actual results are getting your attention. Because you have to remember, the fertility puzzle has a lot of moving pieces. As I said, you can be doing all the things. But if you’re feeding yourself a line of bullshit, like, Oh, when my baby gets here, everything will be good.

This, this rough patch we’re in is just temporary. You’re fooling yourself big time. Here’s why. The pressure only mounts when your baby gets here. And if you have squandered all of your emotional capital on this journey, you may find yourself in a place you don’t want to be in. I love you enough to be straight with you.

And I’ve spoken to women in the past who believe that they can carry the weight of this journey for both partners in the relationship. Then they come back to me exhausted, frustrated, and wonder why their partner’s checked out. Or if they do conceive, they wonder why their partner isn’t engaged in parenting to the degree they are.

See, all of this rolls up together. And I say this with some love and compassion. I mean, it really boggles my mind that the relationship between your relationship and conceiving isn’t more clear. Dude, if you have concerns. about how in your partner is, how the two of you deal with stress, uh, you know, or if you feel at any level unseen by your partner, how secure can you possibly feel?

Seriously. How can you feel ready to receive this baby? And yes, I get it. Look, as a strong, independent, lovably type A control freaky, Alpha female, I get that ultimately your security and your confidence is your responsibility, but you are in this relationship for a reason. Our relationships are the first place we dump our stress and the last place we look for blocks, okay?

Just keep that in mind. It’s mind blowing. And that’s why my husband and I are doing this series. I really hope that with this series, You will start to see all this. This will start to gel and you’ll start to set yourself up for better, right? Because we’re not looking for perfection, but we are looking for better when shit’s not working on this journey You’ve got to ask yourself.

Where are the holes in my strategy? Okay Diet, nailed, treatments, nailed, you know, all of the other things that you want, you know, nailed, mindset, you’re at least trying, you know, relationship, ding, ding, ding, you know, maybe there’s some things that I need to look at there, okay? Nothing wrong with that. And just a quick reminder, enrollment in my Fearlessly Fertile Relationship 4 Week Intensive is open now, and it’ll be closing in just a few days.

I will not be doing this program again this year. So if you want in and you want to prep your relationship, not just for the holidays, but a brand new year on this journey so that the two of you can get on the same page, quit the nonsense, really get on board, feel more in love, feel closer, communicate better, and really bring some of that pre journey joy back, join us.

Join us. You can be better and it can happen faster and with way more fun and love than you think. Don’t let your relationship be the block to your baby mama. With all of that goodness as our backdrop, let’s dive in to episode two in this three part series. And for those of you, if you haven’t listened to part one yet, let me just remind you that I brought my husband on because he’s a red blooded marine, former first responder, amazing dad, and All around hell of a guy.

He’s steady handed, grounded, and I think most people relate to him. I love the perspective that he brings. It’s fresh, it’s unabashedly masculine, and at times, ah, fairly hilarious. And I think he has a lot to say about our focus for this episode, which is how we dealt with the stress. We’re going to be talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly, what we wish we did, uh, what we wish we didn’t do, and all that good stuff.

And don’t forget, hey, if you think your partner can benefit from this, have them listen. All right, babe. Welcome back to the podcast. So we are going to be talking about how we dealt with the stress. So I’m going to set this up for us. So to be honest, like I, at the very beginning, the absolute very beginning of our journey, like when, when we first decided, hey, it was time to.

To do this, we’re doing this thing. I remember thinking like kind of in the back of my mind, I’d heard a bunch of stuff about, oh, if you’re over a certain age is probably going to be hard. And so that kind of like I already going into this, you know, and I hadn’t, I just. Thought there could be a problem, but I didn’t have any reason to believe that.

The only thing I had, it was, you know, my alleged age being an issue. Were you stressed out at all when we first started this? No, I wasn’t. I, I didn’t think there was anything wrong with either one of us. And I, and looking back there, there wasn’t anything wrong with either one of us, but there’s some things that you have to go through just to check.

I didn’t know if. My swimmers were slow or plentiful enough. We didn’t know if everything was, we just assumed we’d never either one of us had any medical history of any issues. So we assumed, but let’s just do our due diligence, make sure all of our T’s are crossed and our I’s are dotted and. Then we would be back on track.

So at the very beginning, no, I was just like, Hey, we got to, we got to get this checked out and we’ll be back on the road. Right. And you know, that’s, I, you know, I never even considered, I knew so little about how this shit worked in the very beginning. Like I had no idea. I figured. I’d get some ovulation kit.

I, I’d kind of get a sense of when I was ovulating and then we’d, you know, we’d be strategic. And, um, but when that wasn’t working, I think that was a little bit of a shock. What about for you? Yeah. Uh, don’t get me wrong. I love the efforts we made, but. At some point, you, again, I, I thought this effort would yield something and other than a wonderful time with my wife, it wasn’t yielding any other outcomes and I, I think it started to become stressful for me around that time when it was very, uh, how, how can I say it, it was, it became stressful.

There was no spontaneity. It became very scheduled. It became at times, uh, like it was forced and, and that’s not the right word, but I’m no Hemingway. So that’s what people are going to have to deal with. It just, it felt a little forced and started sucking some of the pleasure out of it. And that was, that was when I started feeling the stress.

Like I have to perform these days at these times, um, on, on cue. And I don’t know, my foot has to be at a proper angle. I don’t know what else to do. I think, you know, there was one time when I think I called you home. I said, you need to get home, bro. And, and we need to work this out. Yeah. At the time we were living, um, in close proximity to work.

And we worked across the street from one another and I, trust me, I, I’ll take that call today. Uh, and we only, we only work across the hall from one another, but simply put, it just started becoming forced in that genuine, simple, organic pleasure of it was starting to wane into labor. Yeah, I get that. And then, you know, when, when the natural route wasn’t really working.

That’s when we started to like, oh shit, you know, I think we need to start looking at other things and it was funny because truth be told I thought that when we started seeking medical attention and we went big like we went from like trying to conceive Naturally like straight into IVF like we didn’t there was no stopping it at go there I mean like we just went And balls to the wall in this whole thing, we went straight to IVF and that was shocking.

Yeah, absolutely. That, that jump from what we had been practicing, uh, to the advice we received was. Uh, Hey, you got to go, you got to swing for the fence right now. Um, there wasn’t time for a tune up and I think that was kind of the first part that started making, I mean, things had started to become stressful, but making us uncomfortable and not making the right decisions for ourselves really started to kick in then when we were guided down that path, uh, rather abruptly.

And I, you know, I’m not saying it was wrong, uh, and I, I’m not saying it is wrong, but for us. We both felt that, that stress point of going down that path so rapidly, but the sense of urgency that was presented made it seem like that was our absolute. Uh, need to go that direction. Right. It, it was really presented to us like this shit’s now or never, people.

Like, and, and, you know, and I actually felt a lot of pressure to just do, I mean, my critical thinking skills were not engaged at the time. Like, I just was, look, I’m a fucking prosecutor. I’ve got, you know, a ton of trials to do. Can I fit in an IVF cycle between a rape case and a child molest case? Like, I mean, literally, that’s what it was.

And I just figured, you know what, we’re going to do this IVF and I’ll be pregnant by May. You know, like, I didn’t even stop to consider. Like, like, my whole thought process was so mechanistic in that way that I just, it was another problem to solve. Until it wasn’t and, and when that started up, I mean, like, what did you, what was going through your mind when I, when I told you, because I think I went and I had this appointment and I came back and told you, like, what was going through your mind when you heard that stuff?

Yeah, I, like I said, I thought it was a little rushed. I think you did go to the first appointment. I went to meet that doctor by yourself and then I went to get to the next appointment and I was, I was a little bit shell shocked. Uh, I, I never thought in my life that we would have to, uh, expend this sort of energy.

And. All these efforts to, to have a have a baby, but it didn’t, it didn’t slow us in the sense of our resolve. It was okay, let’s check this box, then it will happen. And we’ll be back on track. Yeah. And I mean, we’re both go getters. I mean, nobody could accuse either one of us of being lazy. And so I just figured, okay, all right.

Hey, let’s go, let’s go. And I think what was really. You know, the whole stress of all that was, let’s just get this done. I wasn’t, I didn’t even doubt that it would work at that point. Like I just figured, okay, it’s going to work. The white coats are telling us this is what’s necessary. So let’s just do that.

And then when we did it. And it didn’t work. I think we were gutted. Yeah, we certainly were. Uh, the, the, that doctor works well for a lot of other people. And it, you know, she just didn’t work well for us. Not that the process didn’t pay off, but Just the general temperament, our respective temperament versus hers.

We just didn’t jive and by the end, it didn’t feel like it was a relationship that we should have entered in the first place. And I think we felt that at the very beginning, but that wasn’t the only thing that, you know, you were doing. You, you were working out like mad and, and, and dieting. We were, you know, taking, um, trips to, to, to go get special massages and acupuncture and all, you know, that wasn’t, that just wasn’t one, uh, effort we were making, there was, there was many, and they were starting to.

Take a toll on our lifestyle. Uh, we, I think, had always been fairly clear that we, we, a baby was really, really important to us, but we really wanted to integrate that baby into our life and not send our world spinning out of control around their life. And what were we doing chasing that baby? We were spinning out of control.

Right, and it was funny because I, I remember sitting in that doctor’s office, like straight up catatonic. Uh, when we were told we needed donor eggs, I, I just, I, that took my stress level really into the stratosphere. I think that’s where I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, slow down, wait a second. We’ve had one failure here and you’re telling me that my chance at being a mom.

Was over like really over with my you know Like the the possibility of me having a baby of my own not like I have a get anything against donor eggs I think it’s a fucking blessing and I it just wasn’t for us Yeah, like and and we didn’t even have a chance like, you know where we were Negotiating or like I think that’s where helplessness came in that that’s like the word that I think of At that point, and I think that that took my personal stress level.

I’ll be curious to hear about yours, but I think that being presented to me, it was like this weird mix of grief, devastation, disbelief. And a real sense of helplessness because I was like, holy shit, that that was a point where I mean, again, back then, like who we are today and who we were back then couldn’t be more different.

I had no license and agency when it when it came to thinking critically. About any of this, I just figured if somebody in a white lab coat told me it was true, then that is it, right? Rather than the perspective that we have today, well, where we say, you know, basically, hey, that’s one piece of information, but there’s a constellation of other pieces of information we need to consider.

What about you? I mean, what did, what were you thinking at that point after that, that cycle failed? Yeah, I, I think that’s where the process absolutely jumped the shark for me with that particular doctor. I think it hardened my resolve to know we’re going to, we’re not going that route yet. Um, it seems so rapid that, and I think we made a terrific choice with the next doctor, but we did seek another opinion and we had really wonderful luck with that doctor on all fronts.

But it didn’t work out. Uh, and that’s fine. We still had some gains. We still had progress. We had a lot of progress and a lot of gains and a better relationship. And I think that was an absolute lesson for us about, um, having the courage to make those choices that we need to make at the very beginning, you know, from the very, from the very get go.

And Exponentially more expensive and exponentially more time. And we, I think we, we felt a measure of a reward out of that process, even though it didn’t yield us what we needed. That was the first time where I really felt like, oh man, um, am I more committed than she is? Is she more committed than me?

Where do we take this and how do we communicate about it? I was afraid that I was more committed to it than you were and that you would step away from the process and there would always be this unresolved divide, um, that might turn into something damaging to our relationship. But I was genuinely concerned about that part of the, at about that time in the process, I was like, Holy cow.

We, we got to take another step and you know, quite honestly, just be called, call it what it is. It’s easier for me than it is for you. It was, but you didn’t know that this whole process had released a crack in, you had seen me in court before, so I don’t know what the hell was going through your mind thinking that I was going to tap out like seriously.

No, no, no, not, I just. I, I wouldn’t consider you to be a quitter, but this was uncharted territory and I just didn’t know what, and we weren’t communicating about it. So, so it’s, we’re just kind of taking our cues. Hey, um, what do you think? Uh, well let’s, let’s call this dock in San Francisco. Okay. And you know, and, and then we just moved on.

Right. Well, so let’s talk about that because I think you’re bringing up a really good point. Like, you know, let’s talk about even more clearly, like how we dealt with this stress because I internalized it like I didn’t, you’re absolutely right that we didn’t even really talk about what was happening. I think we both just were like, so shocked that it wasn’t working.

I, you know, I think we were kind of waiting for the other to blink, like what the hell was going on. So I know I internalized it. What were you doing? Oh, well, I think I tried to be supportive, but it was supportive of just what you wanted. I don’t think I was communicating what I wanted. I felt perhaps since you were taking the brunt of the punishment in this process that I would let you take the lead.

Um, Okay. And the only way I could, uh, resolve anything for me and, and my confusion on what I should do was just be supportive of your decisions. Well, and it’s funny because I hear women say that all the time, I, you know, when I ask, I’m like, well, where’s your, where’s your husband or where’s your partner and all this, they say, oh, well, he’s supportive.

But I mean, it’s like, what the hell does that actually mean? Like, what the fuck does that actually mean? Like, you know, cause you. I think you’ve explained that in a really interesting way, because I don’t know what I would have said if somebody asked me if you were supportive or not, I would have said yeah, he’s supportive, I don’t know exactly what he’s doing, and that’s not a criticism, it’s just that we didn’t talk about it, like we had never been Really clear with each other about how far we were willing to go, to what extent we were willing to go.

We never spoke directly about money or time or like, hey, we’re going, we’re going to the ends of the earth for this shit. Like we never, we never really talked about that. But I think there was kind of this tacit agreement between the two of us. That we’re we’re in it for the long haul. Yeah. I mean to answer your question.

What what did I feel? I was doing to be supportive. Uh, I I think I was driving us To and from the city on almost all your appointments I think sitting in the car and getting lunch while you’re getting a massage is pretty fucking supportive. But uh, I um you know whether it’s you know, I I I could have worked overtime and I came home because We had shot our shot regimen to go through.

I could have, you know, taken that trip or, you know, there was a lot of things that I felt like. Um, and I wasn’t, I’m not, I’m not mad about it. I’m not, this isn’t like, um, some persecution for me, me making a sacrifice. I know my sacrifices paled in comparison relative to yours. So I felt like any sacrifice I could make was a way of showing you support.

So if I wasn’t going on that trip, if I didn’t work that, um, assignment, if I was, Driving you to and from the city and, and, and buying the, you know, lunch while you were, uh, getting, you know, needles poked in your ear or something. Uh, it’s fine. All those things were very, very. Easy for me to do because you were bearing the burden of this process.

Well, and I think, you know, and I can appreciate you saying that because I, I think that it’s important for the women listening to this to look at that and see those things. Those were like acts of service that you were engaging in and, you know, and they didn’t go unappreciated. I mean, I, I think that it’s just sometimes.

Because of the stress, we get really myopic, and we get really focused on just what we’re going through. We’re not really looking at what the other person is going through, because I think we laughed about it. Like, I’m glad that you raised this whole shots issue, because there’s no way I was going to be stabbing my own ass, like, with the Progesterone and sesame oil, and you, like, you were there, like, I don’t think I even gave you a choice as to whether or not you were giving me shots, you’re like, I slept in a, in a, in a ditch in Iraq, like, I’ll be able to handle giving my wife a shot in the ass.

Yeah. I, I, I still think back about, you know, doing the shot and I don’t know if I’m doing it right or if I did it right. Maybe the doctors did everything they could and I was the failure failed link in that chain. I don’t know because you know, there’s, there’s oil and blood coming out of your skin and I’m like trying to push it back in with my finger so you don’t see it.

I don’t know what I’m doing here. Yeah. But active service. I think that’s the best way to, you know, state what I was trying to, to provide. Um, in the, Manner of support in which I, you know, was making up on the fly at the time. Yeah. You know, I think the other thing about the stress, like if we’re talking about like the stress, you know, the good, the bad, and the ugly, I think the other thing that really added a layer of really dangerous stress for us is not knowing.

Where the other one was going to tap out, like one of the big stressors for me was I was honestly concerned that I was going to rob you of how, of the chance to be a dad, like that still, like, even though that that didn’t happen, you know, I think that bearing the weight of that. And as far as we knew, because they could never tell us what was wrong with us, you know, I think I really.

Internalized a lot of the guilt, the shame and the worry that you had just picked a broken down old bird, like that you pick the wrong chick, you know, and that because of me and because of my ambition in my career and all that, that you would miss out on being a dad. And, and I think that, I mean, I, a lot of what drove me.

Yeah, and on my end of the spectrum is, I felt like you were wearing that stress. You’d never had to say it, but I mean, that’s, it’s, we’re not hiding a secret here. We know what everybody, what the mission is to accomplish and when that mission’s not being accomplished. Seemingly more by one half than the other.

It’s natural for the other half to go, you know, well, it’s either, yeah, I am thinking that she’s going to rob me. I’m going to be robbed or I’m worried that you’re worried about it because we made it clear, Hey, we’re number one, anything else is an addition. We really, really want this to happen, but I really, really always wanted to be with you.

And if If I didn’t get the baby and that cost me you Then what would be the, the point of any of it? Yeah. And I, and I think that’s a, that’s a conversation that’s hard for a lot of people to have. I mean, I think because of, you know, the experience that we have, you know, as professionals and kind of like the life and death shit we saw on a daily basis, I think.

I can be grateful for our backgrounds to have kind of at least given us some presence of mind to have one foot in some level headedness to be able to be like, look, I, you know, my husband’s a cop. I’m a DA. We both have, you know, your job was way more dangerous than mine. Although I was chased through the courthouse by, uh, uh, you know, a murder suspects family.

You know, like, I think there was a certain level of reality that both of us felt, but it was just hard to say that. Like, how do you say that to somebody? Like, look dude, I love you and I certainly hope that I’m not destroying your life with this. Like, I mean, what do you do with that? Yeah, I think we were well aware and used to Uh, loss, uh, viewing loss through our career and, and seeing it for a long time and understanding that people go through those experiences.

Uh, I always wanted to provide you with the sense that I wasn’t going anywhere, regardless of where this process ended up. And I think I was the one who ultimately. I told you that I’m good with not going any farther because I just couldn’t handle, uh, seeing what it was doing to you, your body was deteriorating your, you were suffering, uh, emotionally, and that’s just not fair.

I didn’t feel at that part of the, that point in time, it wasn’t fair for me to continue to be a pressure point for you to, to, you know, I can’t, I can’t let him down. I can’t let him down. So you weren’t going to quit. And I, I, I remember having that conversation with myself, she’s not going to quit. And. I can’t let her do to herself what she would, you would have destroyed yourself trying to make it happen.

And then I wouldn’t have had anything the other direction. So it’s either I was, I was worried you were going to leave, do this sort of weird noble fall on your sword. And I’m going to, I’m going to run away and let him find somebody younger and, and, and he’ll have a family and I’ll go on to raise a thousand cats in an apartment or, or you were going to.

Run yourself into the grave or an early grave, uh, with stress and medical, uh, you know, interventions that just continue to war you, wear you down. Yeah. And I think that’s where, you know, it’s funny because, you know, another stressor. For us kind of later in our journey was, you know, we, we finally did get pregnant and we lost that baby in a very like crazy, like insane way.

Was Christmas night you at dinner table. Yeah, and you ended up driving me to the ER and we went to Emergency room number 13. I mean like it was it was like bed number 13 on Christmas Day and You know, I think that was a real turning point for us, but not because we were mad, like we were devastated and, you know, we were devastated.

Our hearts were broken. I mean, this was kind of like, I think that what had started happening before that was we started to see that there was more to this journey than just the physical, and I already started doing the work. And and really changing the way that I looked at it and I and I remember distinctly that that had an impact on you like seeing this change in me because I honestly believe and I think the facts bear it out that that was the one thing that was different before we conceived that baby was us.

What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. I distinctly remember you, um, making efforts to change your mindset through just reading. You, I remember you, if you don’t know this about my wife, she’s a nerd and she likes to read a lot. And she’ll have multiple books going and she just, you know, has a pile of books by the nightstand of all these people that are, you know, telling you, you can, you can do more with your mind and, and, um, but I noticed this subtle shifts in your, your demeanor and your attitude in your presence.

And yeah, look, it was a really undesirable situation to have a miscarriage initiated at the dinner table on Christmas Eve with my family and going to the hospital. But the one thing that we said about even after that, I mean, there was a week or so of, Hey, I, you know, weird shock and, and just kind of disbelief.

But it was a win. You had never been pregnant before, and that was a win to get pregnant. Yeah. And I think the interesting thing about that, though, is like the fact that we could see it was a win was massive, you know, because that was, those were our last embryos. Those were the last embryos that we had on ice.

And, and that could have put us in a mental hospital because You know, if we hadn’t changed our mindset, we could have easily fallen into a victim mentality of saying, Oh my gosh, here we are pregnant with our last embryos and it was all taken away. I mean, we could have gone into a really bad place. You were certainly trying to shift your mindset and I could, I could see that I was taking that cue and I think that was probably one of the first times that we, we didn’t, we asked both questions.

Why did this happen to us and why did this happen for us? Ultimately, a lot of our mindset has shifted to why is this happening for us, even to, you know, different sorts of trauma and tragedies that have happened since then. I don’t, we, we haven’t really gone back to asking why did this happen to us?

Because I think we found so much more value in finding. The benefit and being grateful for the, the small wins over the, over the big loss that we, that I think that miscarriage in that mindset shift of saying, hang on, hang on. We did have a win here. There, you know, it wasn’t, we didn’t win the game, but we, we scored some runs this time.

There is hope this donor egg talk was garbage. You know, these, these odds talk were we’re ready to shift this a different way. And we could see the benefit. And the one thing that changed was the mindset that you started, uh, developing and, and sharing and, and changing us with. Yeah. And I think that was the turning point that, that was a massive turning point for us because we, we, we saw like.

You know, look, we’ve, we’ve done the thing where we’re internalizing the stress, like we, we started communicating differently. And I think like when you were super clear with me, you’re like, Hey, I’m in this for us. Like, you know, and I stopped having to worry. About where you stood. I didn’t have to feel like such a, you know, like a fucking failure that it changed Everything like I mean some people’s relationships are destroyed by this journey but I think it made us stronger it made us even more clear about who we were how committed we were to each other and also how committed we were to the vision for our life because After we had that miscarriage, like, yeah, it was sad, it was devastating, and I watched a lot of Downton Abbey in a dark room, you know, we came out of that knowing that we were done with IVF, like, we were done with that treatment.

At that point, we had no fucking clue Where we were going from there. We didn’t know when, we didn’t know how Asher was coming, but we knew we were meant to be parents. We knew that somehow, like, it, it just, there was this, there was peace. There was peace that in my heart, I’ll be curious to hear what you have to say, but there was peace in me that knew I can walk away from this.

I can walk away from this treatment thing and I know I have done everything. You know, because at that point, I had already, you know, like you were saying, you know, I was reading a lot. I was starting to get coaching. You know, I’m too much of an active person. Like, not like I have anything against therapy, but I didn’t want to just sit and talk to somebody about my shit.

Like, I wanted To talk to somebody that can help me be better. And at the time there was nobody doing any like fertility specific stuff that I found or that I actually like felt like I could relate to. I didn’t need anyone hugging trees and talking to spirits. Like I wasn’t ready for that. You talk to people that talk to spirits, so don’t, don’t act like you don’t.

I totally do. I totally do. But at the time I wasn’t ready for that. So I needed, you know, so I of course were go getters and you know, I want to go to the best of the best. So I went to the best of the best and you know, we were investing tens of thousands of dollars into getting, you know, the highest level coaching, things like that.

And, and I, it was just insane what happened for us. And. So, what were your thoughts on, like, the peace after, like, the stress of the miscarriage and then kind of, like, what happened for you after that? Well, I think you made it clear that you were gonna embark on a new journey to shift your mindset and quite honestly, uh, I remember the investment that you made into that and Um, it was just as big, it was actually bigger than our first IVF investment.

Uh, your first, uh, your first full time coach that you hired, if I remember correctly, was more than our first IVF treatment. And I was a little shell shocked by that. I’m like, you gotta talk to somebody? And you gotta pay that much money? Damn. So, but, holy cow. Uh, the, the, the immediate returns, I was, I was blown away and, um, and I remember, you know, being on the road and you saying, man, I just, I wish there was somebody that had been through all of this.

Not that you wish it on anybody, but that had been through this, that, that was there that you felt was trustworthy, that you could talk to. And I remember asking, there’s not, you know, I’ve looked. I’ve looked, there’s not. And so I think that was kind of the impetus to start looking for just a coach to change your mindset.

Didn’t have to be specific to fertility because like you said, that wasn’t really out there at the time. And so just a general mindset coached. I, I, I mean, it was, it was overwhelming how, how fast things changed for us. Yeah. And, and think about like when, so another, so to shift gears a little bit, like, because at that point, like I knew I had to teach women what I had learned, like seeing that shift.

I mean, even though that pregnancy didn’t go to term, like everything. All the things that we’ve been talking about, I’m like, dude, there’s a clear, clear correlation here. Like, and I would, I also a hundred percent believe causation, like, because there’s so much that was happening that was different for us.

And so let’s talk about the year. Cause like, at that point, like we get over The miscarriage. We work through that. We move on in our lives. We, you know, we took the lessons from that, but there was something that really shifted for us the year that we conceived Asher. So let’s talk about that because, you know, we talked about like kind of how we were internalizing things.

We, you know, the stress change because we started to like in our own rudimentary ways start to communicate. And we didn’t, I mean, and neither one of us is going to sit through therapy, like, I can’t even imagine like what that would have been like, we just weren’t ready for that. And we just weren’t in that.

It just, it, it’s kind of not the way that we’re wired. I think we both needed something more active. And so when we started being active and seeking out, you know, a different way of being, when we think back to the year, Like kind of leading up to conceiving Asher like everything was different. We started going to seminars We started just filling our heads with different shit.

You remember that? I I do and it wasn’t just filling our heads with with things It was providing us with tools for the rest of our life and in a lot of situations that were still You know to come and and and are still to come but we start I I remember I, I think that was, I had been putting off a trip to Africa and I took that trip to Africa with a buddy and we went to Italy and France, uh, after that and we, we started living our life the way we wanted.

We started thinking about ourselves, um, not as, you know, the failures that we had been led to believe we were and we did go to seminars and you kept reading and coaching and it was I want to say, you know, we’re talking more than 12, less than 14 months. Of changing our life and changing our minds and pregnant naturally.

That’s no joke. And like, even when we were thinking about this before we got on, like, how fast things changed for us. When we were both a hundred percent on the same page made the conscious decision that we were going to be different Think of all those years of suffering and then we make this because it was in a jam.

It was January I remember it was at the very beginning of the year. We made the conscious decision We had gone to some seminar and we were like boom. This is changing. This year is gonna be different We are gonna be different. Everything we do is gonna be different. I mean One of the ways that I think of that year is it was a year of, yes, for us, like we were saying bigger and bolder yeses, I think, than we had ever said.

I mean, and to your point, you went to Africa, we went to Europe. I mean, that European trip, like we were saying massive yeses, like we, I don’t think there was anything we said no to. I don’t, I don’t recall if there was. I, I think part of that was making up for what we felt like we had lost over those years by not living for our relationship and for the lifestyle that we had lived up until that journey had started.

And so, yeah, we’re probably making it up. We were certainly. We didn’t, like you said, we didn’t say no to anything. It was a birthday trip, a trip because it’s the weekend, it’s the anniversary trip, it’s the Europe trip, it’s the Africa trip, it’s, you know, dinner at the House of Prime Rib in San Francisco.

It didn’t matter what it was, we were doing it. And it, I think that lifted our minds out of the place it had been for several years. And that coupled with the, the small win that we had had at the end of the year, it just felt like our entire life had shifted. Yeah. I mean, I think so much of the stress.

You know, like, in retrospect, that, you know, how we initially dealt with it, you know, the internalization, the fear, the silence, the lack of communication, the sort of just trying to read the fucking tea leaves. Between us not knowing where the other one was willing to go, you know, I, I think that contributed to so much of the pain.

And I think when we started to pull our heads out of our asses and, and get more brave and. I mean, I’ll never forget when you said that to me that, you know, basically, you know, paraphrasing is that, you know, I’m not going anywhere. I’m in this for us. And like, just the weight that was lifted, you know, from me, like, I felt like because we were on the same page It was okay, I could be more bold, I could experiment with more things, you know, we could try different things and, you know, and at the end of our treatment, the treatment part of our journey, like I felt the peace.

I think we both felt that peace. And I think what was interesting about that too, is that part of the release of the stress. For us, like how we started dealing with it differently also came from the spiritual component as well. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely. And there is something greater and having that reassurance certainly helped us along going back to what you’re saying.

Uh, you know, here I am 40 and I’ve never had to communicate any of these things, right? So nobody’s going to accuse me of being the great communicator, but what I was doing through the acts of service I thought was communicating, but it just flat out wasn’t enough of a measure of communication to you. I simply had to say it in the, in the, in the plainest terms I could.

Um, and you paraphrase it, and I don’t recall, I’ll have to paraphrase too, but yeah, I’m, I’m down. I ain’t going anywhere. This, you know, full blown failure, limbs fall off, I’m still here. So, you know, we’re burning the boats, and we’re going to be in this together. And that, that was it. And I think once I, once I felt like you knew that, I think it made it, made our communication easier.

And I, I, I wasn’t so intimidated by telling you. That I couldn’t see you go through anymore. Uh, it made it easier for me. And I think. It, it was met with some resistance, but ultimately I think you saw it was coming from the best place it possibly could and you received it. Yeah. And you know, I think at first I thought you were saying no, that we’re not having a baby.

I think what you, I mean, what you were ultimately saying is we’re not doing it this way anymore. We’re not doing that anymore. And, and, you know, like totally driving ourselves bananas, like. You know, because you’re a reasonable man for the most part, for the most part, but I think that we both saw that the way that we were living was going to drive us to a really not good place.

And so, when, I think kind of when things mellowed out and we saw what was really going on, I, I think we could, we could step into that, we could step into, to the peace. I think that was just waiting for us. The piece that could come from us. Finally, I don’t think we were ever not on the same page. I think it was just a lack of communication and, and so much fear that was keeping us quiet.

Yeah. I think we were relying heavily on subtle cues from one another, as opposed to just You know, we, we, we probably lucked out for a lot of it in that we were on the same page and we didn’t have to say it. And I think that speaks to the type of relationship we had and have, but at some point I just need to hear something.

And at some point you just need to hear something and you know, it often doesn’t take much time, but holy cow, what a, what a difference it can make. And I learned back then, I think through your coaching, I heard you talking about, um, you know, rehearsing, fear rehearsing, and I would fear rehearse having a conversation with you.

And uh, not that I thought you, you never jumped, you know, bit my head off. You weren’t abusive. You, you never yelled at me, you won’t, you know, but I just, I wanted to really, really make sure. You received it in the way I really meant it. And I remember, well, if you can fear rehearse a conversation, you can certainly success rehearse a conversation.

And I remember trying to success rehearse some of those talks. So

yeah, I mean it, what the choices we consciously made. And the, and the, and the choices that were subconsciously, you know, manifested through us. We lucked out. Um, and you know, we’ve seen that where it hasn’t been so lucky for some other people and, well, I don’t know if it’s slow luck. I mean, I don’t know that I would call it luck because we were making a conscious decision at some point, like.

We were so and are so committed to each other that, like, we weren’t gonna let anything tear this asunder, like, there was, there was just, it wasn’t gonna happen, but I think your, your, your point is extremely well taken, that sometimes you just have to fucking say it, like, if you don’t say something, like, how, you’d be like, but you can’t read my mind, like You know, we’re not, you know, we’re smart people, but that doesn’t mean that the way that we’re going about it is intelligent.

There’s two, it’s two very different things. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And let’s be honest, if there’s any men listening to this, it’s, you are not wrong. Your women do have conversations in their head. And then loop you in three quarters of the way through expecting you to know what they said for the first three quarters of it and that that hasn’t changed.

And then I think I’m crazy. Like, wow, didn’t she really say, tell me that earlier? I don’t recall. But, uh. It’s, it’s, it makes things easier to, to, um, for me, success, rehearse some conversations to make sure I conveying it the best way I can. And hopefully, uh, you know, and love and trust what I’m doing is only to advance us.

And I know that about you and, uh, and, and hopefully we’re in our. Uh, appropriate respective places to receive that. And there’s not something else, uh, that gets in the way of that. Well, so babe, what would you say, I mean, from your perspective, these ladies hear me ranting all the time, but like from your perspective, you know, what are, what are some of the things that you would really encourage the partner half to be thinking about?

Like, or even, even if you’re going to speak directly to the ladies, like what would you want them to know about? Like, what were good things to do about approaching the stress and particularly in the context of trying to figure out what’s going on for your partner? Well, we’ve had this conversation with your groups before and it’s difficult for us to have a conversation about, uh, some things when you are in your masculine, you can get very focused and goal oriented and those are, you know, great things.

And, and, you know, I was having this inner monologue. Some days ago about it is, is that place really the masculine or is that truly the feminine because you have a drive that is far greater than any man I’ve ever known. And I’m sure some of the women that are listening do as well. So maybe, maybe I’ve been thinking about that wrong for a long time.

Maybe. Maybe it’s not in the masculine that you’re in, uh, it’s just a really, really strong feminine and I don’t know, I, it was just an inner, inner conversation I had the other day with myself, but whatever the place you’re in, I know there’s a good time to approach you with certain subjects, and I know there’s a poor time to approach you with certain subjects, and I would say, generally speaking, when I believe you’re in a masculine energy, It’s difficult to have the conversation that can be delicate on my end, because even though I think I’m saying it well, it’s not being received well.

We can have the exact same conversation when the energy is different. And it’s received much, much better. So for ladies from a, from my perspective, I try and pick my, my times as to when to approach my wife. I like to overshare, I like to talk. And so I don’t always pick the best times and she’s a busy woman, but it’s certainly when I catch her in.

The less type a, because I think most of the women that you talk to are the, the overachievers, the never fail, highly successful, highly driven women. And there’s that energy. And then there’s the energy of. Uh, uh, much more nurturing and, uh, accepting sort of energy that I can pick those moments and I can get you in at that time, our communication for more difficult topics that I’m, I’m not the great, like I said, I’m not the great communicator.

I don’t speak very well. I’m a, I’m https: otter. ai

If I have to communicate as a hammer, then I hope I pick my energy. I hope I, I picked the right time when your energy is in the right place. You’re telling these women to pick their spots. Well, if their man approaches them and maybe they’re not in the right spot, um, some grace, uh, and some understanding, because I, I feel like I’m, I’m very aware when my energy is poor and I don’t want to talk and I don’t want you bring in any nonsense to me about something that’s not going to make the situation better.

If the situation. It’s going to be better by what you’re telling me, then that’s what I want to hear. If you’re, if you’re, if I’m in a bad spot already and you’re telling me something that isn’t going to make my energy better, it’s only going to make it worse. That’s no fault of you yours, but it’s just, I think naturally how, you know, a lot of us work.

Right. And I think that’s such an important thing is to like, I mean, hopefully you’re going to take some of the, the realness from this and, and really. Size it up in your own relationship, but, you know, the communication is so critical and, and the way that we manage stress, the way that we figure out how to navigate that within the uniqueness of, of our relationships is critical.

I mean. You know, because when we look back, I mean, I could see that there, there are a lot of things, a lot of moving pieces in the, in the fertility puzzle, right? I could see that because of my own fear, that I was scared about the state of our relationship, like, I’ve, it, you know, in my mind, Even though, like, we’re married, we’re stable, like, there was an uncertainty in our relationship.

How far can I go here? How far is he gonna go? That made me feel very insecure. Like, I, I created that insecurity. You never did that. But I created that. And I, you know, kind of just what you were saying before about, you know, you have to be receptive. You know, I have to be in a receptive place when you’re wanting to bring something difficult to me, or you have to be in a receptive place for me to bring something nonsensical to you.

But that receptivity still applies. Like when we’re looking for blocks in our relationships or blocks. In our mindset or blocks in our diet or blocks in our treatment, like you got to look at where there are places for improvement. And that doesn’t mean your relationship is bad. It just means, could this be a block?

And I can honestly say like. When I look at the constellations of blocks that were both mindset for me, physical, all this other stuff, I mean, the fact that I wasn’t sure where you stood, how could that not be a block to calling Asher in? Like, if I didn’t know where you stood and I didn’t feel comfortable, you know, sharing that with you or getting to the bottom line with you, because either I didn’t have the, the skill to do it, And both of us, as you said, we’re just kind of taking these visual cues.

We certainly weren’t communicating truth. It wasn’t, it didn’t come until much later. Um, how could that not be a block? I absolutely think it is a block. And I think from the very beginning, if there was, you know, some measure of advice that I could provide is if you’re listening to these podcasts for the first few times, and you’re not down the path as far as maybe we were or some others is.

Uh, and I know other people have had those concerns. We’ve heard it for years now and you’re still hearing it now. I’m, I’m, I’m sure of it. You got to have that conversation about where things stand and that doesn’t mean that they can’t evolve. They will evolve and they, they absolutely will change, but there needs to be some baseline, some security, some foundation to say, you know, and I know you’ve had women that have Told you that their men weren’t going down that path for very long or that they weren’t interested in going down the path at all.

And they felt crushed that they were never going to be a mother. So that’s reciprocal. It’s got it. That information has to be closer to the forefront of the, of the journey. Well, no, I mean, I’ve heard, I mean, I, I hear, you know, after all these years of this, like, I hear all kinds of crazy shit, like, and, and that’s not from a judgmental place that I’m saying it’s crazy, I’m just saying shocking things, like, you know, you know, oh, well, my, my husband gave me this bottom line, I can only spend 25, 000 on, on treatment, and it’s like, huh?

Like, where the fuck did that number even come from? Like, where, like, how, you’re just fucking guessing, dude. Yeah. Like, where are you even, what are you talking about? Like, like people, you can’t even, weren’t we looking at like VW Golfs the other night? You can’t even get a used VW Golf for 25, 000 anymore.

You’re going to put a price tag like that shit on a baby? Like seriously, you’ve got to have something to say about that. Yeah, just to clarify, we’re looking for the Golf just to buzz around town, not for anything. Not that I really like those little GTIs and I thought they were pretty cool, but I’m not being relegated to a, to a gulf.

No, no. Uh, I think going back to the statement about the number being arbitrary, whether it be financially or whether it be, uh, an amount of cycles or what somebody’s willing to go through. I think we had a conversation early on that leaving something on the table wasn’t the type of people we were. And I would rather be broke with certainty than rich with uncertainty.

And what I mean is that whether it’s, it was, if we did see fit. 10 cycles of IVF or donor eggs or whatever level we felt was appropriate. We were going to do, we didn’t quit IVF for financial purposes. We quit IVF because of all the other things that we stated earlier. We felt there was another path for us.

But I’d rather be, I’d be, I’d rather be broken certain knowing that I, I gave everything I had and I don’t have any regret in that certainty than having an extra 20, 000, an extra 5, 000 with, with uncertainty and regret in my life. Yeah, and I, I think that that definitely, I mean, that also that shift in, in us being like, look, we’re, we’re all in, we’re all in for whatever it takes.

And I think that, you know, I mean, it’s not even the time and it’s not even the money. I think what this is about, and since we’re, you know, we’re wrapping this conversation up about stress. Is that we wanted the other person to live their dream like it was so important to us that we live this dream of being parents and that we did everything humanly possible to facilitate that one way or another, that.

Neither one of us wanted the pain of regret. I mean, I think that’s also a gift of our, our professions, our previous professions as well, was seeing people lead lives unlived and, and rot on the vine and people who don’t have the guts to, to try something different, to go out on a limb, you know, and just really go for it.

And I, I think that was a, a huge turning point for us as well. Was I think the urgency of like, look, we’ve got one fucking life here and, and I’m in it to win. I don’t, I don’t want to be in a situation where we look back and we say, fuck, if only, you know, if only we had done something, because I think that would have destroyed us.

I agree. And I’m not always the best at being that person at all times. It’s, it’s, it’s not easy, but for that journey and for our marriage and for the life that we wanted for one another, it was extremely stressful to feel like we were failing the other person. And once we cleared that up that, Hey, you’re not, you’re not failing me, your body’s not failing me, you’re not feeling our relationship, you’re not failing our marriage.

Once we cleared that up and started shifting our minds to eliminate those stressors, those unspoken stressors between us, even though I don’t think we ever yelled about it, we never fought about it, it was, it was a stressor that, Like, you know, we’ve never had, we never had before and haven’t had since, you know, sometimes it’s easier to just blurt it out and get it out and walk out of the room and, and, and go take a shower and come back together an hour later and it’s done.

It’s done. But these unspoken stressors that, that were plaguing us internally, uh, were, we probably felt a measure of poison from them. Strangely, that poison only strengthened. Our immune system to fight that poison and, and, and forced us into a position to communicate and excise that poison. Yeah. Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.

And so this has been quite an episode, babe. And so I really appreciate your transparency here and, and really putting it out there and. You know, this is why I, like I was saying at the very beginning in the intro, like, I just can’t emphasize enough to anybody listening, you know, male, female, whatever, like, and, and which partner you’re in or who’s to quote unquote blame, you know, where the problem quote unquote lies like.

When your relationship is straightened up and the two of you are communicating and you make it safe for the other person to, to speak their mind and to show up for you and, and for you to be receptive, because I think that’s another point that you made that was a really good one is that I had to be receptive and I still have to be receptive today.

But like, if you don’t have access to that, like, if you don’t even know how to receive from your partner, like, how the fuck are you ever going to get on the same page? Like, how are you ever going to have the confidence that comes from knowing that you have your partners back? And most importantly, that they have yours.

So thanks for that, babe. Anything you want to say in parting? Yeah. I think that last point was if you’re, if you’re punishing yourself and you’re not able to receive. How is it going to change for you? You can’t be in a place to hear that something needs to change and you’re only punishing yourself for what’s in your own mind.

That’s a really, really tough spot to be. And I’m sure all of us have been there at some point one time or another, but this, this journey. Really takes and pulls that those, those, the most difficult parts of all of that out. And I, I can, I can certainly look back and understand, uh, and be completely grateful that what happened.

Yeah. And I appreciate you making that point because in the end, I mean, we came out stronger as a result of this journey and like being willing to look at ourselves and being willing to look at our relationship, even though it was great. I mean, like we were not like in a shit place and we certainly didn’t wait until things got shitty.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like to, to be looking, I mean, I think we were, we were committed enough to each other that we were going to fix things and we’re going to find a way to do it. And we ultimately did. And we got to a place where I think the trust between us was just unbreakable. And when we.

Really let ourselves live. I mean that whole year leading up to asher was just crazy It’s like I think truly one of the best years of our lives I think it was one of those pivot points in our lives where we really you know It’s been all downhill since is what you’re saying No It’s not downhill I, I think it just was one of those hallmark years, Ben.

It, it absolutely was. And, uh, I, I think it elevated our, our spirits, it elevated our marriage. And, and, and I, I, I can’t emphasize this enough. I, I never felt like we were down and out, um, with one another, but there was genuine concern that, you know, I thought you were gonna try and do something dumb and, and, and fall on your sword and, and step away from, from me to, to.

To provide me with the life that you thought I deserve, which I, you know, I can understand and I can completely respect, but that’s not what I wanted. I didn’t want to didn’t want that. So I, I think that returned us to that. Um, and, and, uh, I don’t, I don’t even know how to say it in, in more of an, an outgoing, you know, we weren’t just leaving this internal love for one another.

We’re truly expressing it. And back to enjoying, you know, our life and, and finding the solution and, and, uh, and, and guiding Asher in, cause you know, I don’t blame him for not wanting to show up before that. Well, thank you, babe, for love you. And thank you for appearing on this. This epic episode. So ladies, I hope that you can take something from this conversation that we’ve had.

And I hope that you can, you know, even if you sit with your partner and listen to this and, and just. Like, look, like a Vegas buffet, take from it what you want, leave the rest, but you’re hearing the perspective of a couple that actually live this, beat the odds and, and are better for it. And you know that that’s my sincere prayer for all of you in, in putting all of this out there.

And if you feel it on your heart that, that, you know, you want to do better, you know that. You want to be fearless in your relationship, like, check it out. Check out the fearlessly fertile relationship. Our enrollment will be closing, uh, at the end of the month. And, you know, if, if you want to be in a situation where you can actually be spending four weeks totally focused on your relationship, do it in a way that’s more fun than probably you might have ever thought working on your relationship could be.

Then join us and one of the bonuses that we’re giving is not just a, a check in call with me 30 days after the program is completed, but you get to bring your partner to a bring your partner VIP group coaching call that my husband and I will be hosting. And it’s a really, I think a great opportunity for you to get your partner involved.

Um, this program is for you and you’re going to be participating in the four week intensive, but the VIP call is going to be a really great opportunity for you to bring your partner and they get to participate in any way they wish and, and see real people that have survived this journey and actually learned to thrive.

So my loves, if that’s on your heart, join us. We’d love to have you. And don’t you dare forget that the desire in your heart to be a mom is there because it was meant for you till next time. Change your mindset, change your results. Love this episode of the Fearlessly Fertile Podcast? Subscribe now and leave an awesome review.

Remember, the desire in your heart to be a mom is there because it was meant for you. When it comes to your dreams, keep saying, Hell yes!